Curse

NJudson · Jul 04, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

My God! Maybe it's just me, but I cannot seem to get anything going with most PUG lately, particularly with my necro. It's been sometime now that we've been able to play and ping builds back and forth, but up until now I've very, very rarely had any issues with a build being "unacceptable" to the group.

Now I'm running into GO RED ENGINE bungholes with their elitest snob attitudes saying your build sucks, kick him, my hero MM is way better...blah, blah, blah. I have Prophecies and just recently got Factions so I'm trying to play through to get Flesh Golem and anything else good in factions, but nooooo, I'm unacceptable to join a group because I don't already have Flesh Golem and Shambling Horrors (of which I can't even get). I guess I'm pathetic because I didn't have death nova on my build either.

So please tell me I have just had a bad streak of PUG lately and that the vast majority of groups don't care what build you use. This is getting ridiculous.

zwei2stein · Jul 04, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Best start is to post us your build, give us template code.

Some people have impresive ability to come up with terrible snowflake builds and then be suprised why pugs hate them and refuse to take any blame themselves but blame pugs instead.

(btw: Flesh Golem is overrated, but you still should have decent elite in Aura of The Lich or Virulence.)

(btw2: hero MMs are, sadly, usually better than player MMs.)

Omniclasm · Jul 04, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

When people ask me to ping my build I just laugh.
If they ask again I leave.

Could do without the elites trying to nitpick at my build. Can do everything with heroes anyway so I'm not worried about it.

Zinger314 · Jul 04, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I used to ask W/Mos ping their builds when I was going for Protector/Guardian, because you know how the average PuG W/Mo is.

Of course, Mending and Healing Breeze were usually on their bars...

There's nothing wrong with asking people to ping their skill bars. Some say it's elitist, other just don't want to waste their own time.

Series · Jul 04, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

When people ask me to ping my build I just laugh.
If they ask again I leave.

Could do without the elites trying to nitpick at my build. Can do everything with heroes anyway so I'm not worried about it.

Wow.

(12characters.)

Dr Strangelove · Jul 04, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I ask everyone to ping their build in HM, and start by pinging my own. There's nothing wrong with trying to coordinate a groups skillsets and help players make more efficient builds.

Usually the people who refuse are selfish pricks who I don't want in my group, or impatient jerks, who I also don't want in my group. Win-Win.

T N Player · Jul 04, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

i always ping my builds even if they dont ask me to. i am confident in my builds and they r good builds. i dont get why ppl wont ping wen asked. not like we going to steal it.

i never really care about what build u r using, just want them to at least have the right elite and key skills and the rest r wat ever they want.

some ppl want me to ping builds on my warrior because he is mostly a w/mo. they r happy wen i dont have mending on it. i just use /mo for the hard resz and mending touch

cce · Jul 04, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

by pinging mine. Yea, sure, some kick you once they see the build, but that's their problem. I would wish it would tell everyone in the group when the leader kicked someone vs when they left willingly.

vaxmor · Jul 04, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I hate when people ask me to ping my build - whats so wrong with HH/breeze/mending on my leet W/MO?

My FDS is teh pwnsauce.

NJudson · Jul 04, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I really never had issues before when people requested to ping my build, but it's just lately I've been mocked and scorned for the builds I used. I don't claim to have the best build, but they really never produced negative comments before and certainly didn't keep me out of the vast majority of PUGs.

And again, maybe it's more likely to happen when I play my necro. People really seem to be picky with how a MM or Blood/Curses build is laid out. As far as the other person said about hero MM's being a little better than a real person, I don't necessarily disagree. I've been in groups with someone's hero MM and they are good it seems.

I can understand a person or group wanting to be more picky when it's HM or going for Masters, but for a regular mission/quest....come on people. It's not like PvE is that drastically difficult. A group of monkeys randomnly pressing keys 1-8 should be able to get through a good percentage of the storyline.

Navaros · Jul 04, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJudson

My God! Maybe it's just me, but I cannot seem to get anything going with most PUG lately, particularly with my necro. It's been sometime now that we've been able to play and ping builds back and forth, but up until now I've very, very rarely had any issues with a build being "unacceptable" to the group.

Now I'm running into GO RED ENGINE bungholes with their elitest snob attitudes saying your build sucks, kick him, my hero MM is way better...blah, blah, blah. I have Prophecies and just recently got Factions so I'm trying to play through to get Flesh Golem and anything else good in factions, but nooooo, I'm unacceptable to join a group because I don't already have Flesh Golem and Shambling Horrors (of which I can't even get). I guess I'm pathetic because I didn't have death nova on my build either.

So please tell me I have just had a bad streak of PUG lately and that the vast majority of groups don't care what build you use. This is getting ridiculous.

Based on the content of the quoted post, the simple fact is that his Hero MM is indeed way better. Can't blame the guy for telling the truth and being honest with you, and not wanting to take a real player that his AI hero can perform much better than.

My advice is don't blame players for wanting a good skillbar on his allies, that's a reasonable request by him.

Usually PUGs don't ask for builds to be pinged ---but that is only because if they have the knowledge & understanding of what a crappy skillbar from another class looks like, they wouldn't be PUGing in the first place. Instead, they'd be using Heroes and Henchmen so as to avoid such crappy skillbars on real players.

Necrotic · Jul 04, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Who joins PUGs anymore? The handful of times I have had any suggestions to change my skills....have come from friends...so not quite the same as getting told by someone who doesn't play a necro what skills I should bring.

Chthon · Jul 04, 2007, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJudson

Now I'm running into GO RED ENGINE bungholes with their elitest snob attitudes saying your build sucks, kick him, my hero MM is way better...blah, blah, blah. I have Prophecies and just recently got Factions so I'm trying to play through to get Flesh Golem and anything else good in factions, but nooooo, I'm unacceptable to join a group because I don't already have Flesh Golem and Shambling Horrors (of which I can't even get). I guess I'm pathetic because I didn't have death nova on my build either.

My thought is you ran into an idiot or two. Don't listen to them. Just so that you don't turn into a terrible MM because you took what those fools said to heart:

1. Hero MM's suck. There's not a damn thing you can do to train them to use BotM properly. They make excellent minion bombers (thanks to their ability to target death nova and jagged bones far better than a human), but they are terrible minion masters. Anyone who thinks their hero is a good MM has never seen a good MM.

2. Death nova is a minion bomber skill. It has no place on a minion master's bar. A minion master is supposed to be maintaining those expensive minions with BotM to milk them for all the damage and tanking their worth, not blowing them up. As a MM, if you've got the resources to be casting a 5e, 1c spell, it should be BotM.

3. The same is true for shambling horrors - minion bomber skill, not minion master skill. Once they convert to jagged horrors, they've got lower life, armor, and damage than bone and vampiric horrors. (No, the bleeding does NOT make up for the lost damage, since the horrors usually mob up on one or two targets so the bleeding effect is wasted on all but 1 or 2 horrors.) That makes them wasted space. Your army doesn't have any room for second rate minions.
Additionally, the interaction with the minion cap tends to lead to wasteful chain reactions, which are even more unpleasant thanks to the most recent SR nerf.

4. Flesh Golem is nice. It's a solid tank. And it provides a 2x damage boost over a fiend, or a 3x damage boost over a horror, for 1 spot in your army. That said, it's not the best elite out there. Order of Undeath can produce a lot more damage. While it's highly overrated, AotL is very useful too. And there's a number of other decent elites out there for minion masters. You shouldn't feel that you need to use flesh golem, or that having flesh golem magically makes someone a good MM.

Lotrfish · Jul 04, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

About 50% of all PUGers think they're too good to bring rez.

Skuld · Jul 04, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

"Mommy mommy some nasty people upset me on the internets!"

"I don't care son, go post it on Guru and see if they care!"

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 04, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Pinging your skill bar really is a win-win deal, when looked at from a certian point of view.

If the someone suggests trying something different, you may find a nice complimentary skill that you missed. (Always be open to suggestions. Just know the difference between good ideas and bad ones.)

If the people in the party start bashing you for being a "n00b" and all that garbage, you can leave and not have to worry about spending the next 30+ minutes dealing with the little twits. Besides, if you do have a good skill bar and they think it sucks, you won't have to waste the 10 minutes or so it'll take those idiots to fail the mission/quest.

bhavv · Jul 04, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I ask everyone to ping their build in HM, and start by pinging my own. There's nothing wrong with trying to coordinate a groups skillsets and help players make more efficient builds.

Usually the people who refuse are selfish pricks who I don't want in my group, or impatient jerks, who I also don't want in my group. Win-Win.

/agree

You win the thread. Topic over.

Anyone that complains about having to ping their build seriously has team play issues, and are the reason why I hate playing with people in this game.

ca_aok · Jul 04, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

A few thoughts.

When someone asks me to ping my build, I generally comply. If they request a change, I consider it, reflect, and then proceed to tell them exactly why their suggestion is idiotic (of course if it's not idiotic, then I'll certainly change). An example of a good suggestion would be "Spirit Bond generally works better than Prot Spirit for this mission due to X". However, I cannot count the number of times I've had dumb skill requests, including:
-Drop Glowing Gaze for Rodgort's Invocation
-Order of the Undeath? wtf? MOAR FLESH GOLEM PLZ
And, my personal favorite:
-Drop Mending Touch for Mending.
I almost fell out of my chair laughing before quitting said PUG.

Personally, I like to see people's skill bars before entering a mission/whatever if I'm party leader. Not necessarily because I'll be able to make them change (many PUG people won't have many skills unlocked and will have nothing better to bring anyway), but to prepare for the worse, and if need be, to remove them from said party. And no, I do not simply kick everyone who isn't running a perfect GvG bar. If a warrior feels the need to bring Hundred Blades as his elite, that's fine. However, if a warrior has more points in healing prayers than his weapon mastery and has half a bar full of monk skills, that's where I generally draw the line. Lack of an elite skill is also usually a turnoff unless their build has enough synergy that there really wasn't room to pack that last skill in. Most people who don't bother to cap an elite for use tend to be inexperienced.

Honestly, assuming your build was decent, your party leader was probably an elitist prick and you wouldn't want to play with him anyway. If your build wasn't decent... you can't really expect people to WANT to group with you for a half hour mission. A team is only as strong as its weakest link, after all.

-Loki- · Jul 05, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Didn't we do this last week? As I said before, there's nothing wrong with being asked to ping your build. They just want to make sure you aren't running something like this:

Stormlord Alex · Jul 05, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Personally, if I started a PuG, I'd ask for build pings. Not because i'm an elitist twat (most of the time, anyways

) but just so I could weed out the terrible players, and maybe suggest a few skills more suited to the area.
In the same fashion, I don't mind having my build asked for - it's hardly 'rude', it's just good sense.

Otherwise you'd get stuck with a MM at Hell's Precipice or a mending wammo everywhere...

EDIT: zomg Loki... Th4t heelar iz t3h best! way 2 pak ur skillbar with t3h greetest heelin skillz ev4r... Kudos to the monk who thought that skillbar up

Seriously, a prime example of why builds should be pinged... Unless you want that healing you...